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Sunday, Aug 01, 2021

What’s Behind the Attack on The Epoch Times in Hong Kong?—Guo Jun, Head of The Epoch Times Hong Kong

In the early hours of April 12, four intruders wielding sledgehammers and other weapons barged into the printing press of the Hong Kong edition of The Epoch Times.

They hammered printing equipment and tossed construction debris onto the machines, hoping to cripple a printing system that relies on pristine surfaces to operate smoothly.

This was not the first time the Hong Kong printing plant has been attacked. In fact, it’s the fifth.

Back in November 2019, four individuals firebombed the plant, resulting in more than $40,000 in damages.

So what is behind these attacks?

We sit down with Guo Jun, one of the original co-founders of The Epoch Times and the head of the Hong Kong edition of The Epoch Times.

Jan Jekielek: Guo Jun, such a pleasure to have you on American Thought Leaders.

Guo Jun: Thank you. I’ve been looking forward to being on your show.

Mr. Jekielek: The print shop in Hong Kong was attacked recently. Tell me what happened.

Ms. Guo: Sure. In the early morning of April 12, Hong Kong time, the printing press of Hong Kong Epoch Times was attacked by four thugs hired by the CCP [Chinese Communist Party]. Four thugs rushed into the facility and they smashed the control boards of the printing machine. They also robbed the CPU from one of our computers and wielded sledgehammers to damage the equipment.

We were very shocked at the time. The entire incident lasted for about 2 minutes. The police then arrived and very promptly defined this as a serious case. The case was passed to the Hong Kong Crime Squad for investigation.

Mr. Jekielek: We saw in the video, the closed caption video, that they’re spreading some debris throughout the place. What was that?

Ms. Guo: One of the thugs first held the iron gate open and the others then rushed in. They brought hammers and a black trash bag with construction debris in it, which they then spread over the machines. Their actions were outrageous. I think their purpose was to leave our printing machines completely paralyzed. They did something like this to stop all our printing equipment from functioning.

Mr. Jekielek: This isn’t actually the first time that something like this has happened, right?

Ms. Guo: Yes, it is actually the fifth time the Hong Kong Epoch Times printing press was attacked. There were four previous incidents. Because of work, I spend my year partially in Hong Kong and partially in the U.S. It happened to be in 2019 during the anti-extradition bill protests in Hong Kong. I remember it was November 18.

Similarly, a group of thugs hired by the CCP wearing black clothes broke into the printing press and set a fire. Fortunately, while the flames were quite intense, our staff put out the fire in a timely manner, so no big losses were caused in that incident. At that time, I was in Hong Kong covering the anti-extradition bill protests and I, myself, experienced that attack. That was last year’s incident.

There were three other times that our printing press in Hong Kong was attacked. I remember that it was in 2006 when our printing press was first established. Several thugs broke in and smashed the machines that we had just bought. Later in October and December 2012 they tried to break in twice, but failed because we called the police. In 2013, there was another incident. The thugs smashed glasses and a gate. They tried to barge in, but were stopped. So such violent attacks happened five times in total and each time we reported it to the police, but so far not one case has been resolved.

Mr. Jekielek: The police have never found the perpetrators, so how is it that we’re so sure that the Chinese Communist Party is involved, that these people are connected with the Chinese Communist Party?

Ms. Guo: We’re highly confident that these thugs were hired by the CCP to violently attack The Epoch Times because it happened so many times before. Throughout our 20 years of publishing in Hong Kong, we were constantly suppressed by the CCP. Our staff members were followed, and our advertisers were threatened. Business partners who worked with us, the offices they rent were also pressured by the CCP. They wanted to prevent them from doing business with us. Our staff members, their relatives in mainland China were also intimidated.

All these years, the CCP has never stopped suppressing The Epoch Times in Hong Kong. The Epoch Times doesn’t have any enemies who are hostile to us because we don’t owe any debts and we never had any business conflicts with groups or individuals. But in Hong Kong, we are always suppressed by the CCP and we are very sure that this incident is done by the CCP too. In fact, after the news came out about the attack, there were so many comments, and a lot of people told us, “You don’t have to tell me. We know that the CCP is behind it.” A lot of Hongkongers said so.

Mr. Jekielek: This is actually also very interesting. What do you expect will happen with the police? Why have the police not found any perpetrators in the past? What do you expect will happen now?

Ms. Guo: We don’t have a lot of expectations for the police to solve this case, because in the few recent incidents, the police never gave us a conclusion. In Hong Kong, as we all know, the Hong Kong Police Force is no longer independent. To a large extent, we were very disappointed in them. After so many incidents have happened, we are very disappointed.

After this incident, after the thugs broke into our printing press this time, they left a note on the floor that wrote, “Any debts have to be paid for.” After the police arrived at the scene, our staff members told them that the printing press does not owe any debts. We don’t have such relationships with anyone and the police know that. So the police told us that they categorized this as a serious crime and they handed it to the team that specifically tackles gangs.

We have seen some media reports saying that the incident was a result of us owing debts, so we called those media outlets asking them why they said so. They said, “The information came from the police.” After we clarified the situation, those media outlets took down such descriptions. We were very intrigued because the police did not inform us beforehand, and they didn’t tell us that there’s any debt problem or if they’ve received any complaints. However, they pass such information on to the media outlets and we don’t understand why the police did it.

So we don’t have high hopes for the police to justly solve the case because as seen from the past incidents, due to pressure from the CCP, it’s very hard for them to enforce the law justly.

Mr. Jekielek: Why do you think this happened now? Why are these attacks happening at this time?

Ms. Guo: We see that under the current Hong Kong, freedoms are being increasingly limited. We all know that Hong Kong police arrested 47 pro-democracy activists. On April 1, Hong Kong announced that 7 pro-democracy leaders were convicted over the 2019 protests, and very soon, these pro-democracy leaders will be sentenced. Their sentencing will be announced.

Right now, in the entire environment in Hong Kong, freedoms are being eliminated by the CCP. The “One country, two systems” framework is literally non-existent. In such a difficult situation, a lot of media outlets choose to self-censor. They would filter news themselves. A lot of media outlets are doing this.

Hong Kong government has always been suppressing government-sponsored outlets such as RTHK [Radio Television Hong Kong], so there are fewer and fewer media outlets in Hong Kong that can speak out, including Apple Daily. Even Apple Daily’s boss, Jimmy Lai, was also indicted and he’s facing a sentence.

In such an environment, The Epoch Times has always persevered and reported the truth. We can see that we are the only outlet in Hong Kong that will not make up any news about China. That’s why the Hong Kong Epoch Times has always been the outlet that refuses to be intimidated by the CCP. We don’t filter any news nor do we self-censorship, but a lot of media outlets in Hong Kong are doing this.

With other media outlets, the CCP can exert their control, cancel their shows, intimidate them, and other media outlets will start to self-censor. As a result, they will gradually lessen their reporting on the truth. However, The Epoch Times has never changed. So I think the CCP wants to intimidate our staff members and wants to intimidate The Epoch Times to make us give up. That is the purpose of why the CCP is doing this right now, at this point.

Mr. Jekielek: Are you concerned that there may be more harsh responses from the government in the future?

Ms. Guo: I’m very worried. The current Hong Kong government is very different from the past. The situation in Hong Kong is deteriorating badly. I’m very concerned about the situation of the Hong Kong Epoch Times.

In fact, our staff members have been constantly intimidated and their relatives in China have been intimidated. In our printing press now, there were some violent attacks. Just a few days before this attack actually, there were people in front of our printing press. They were following our staff and watching us. Such behavior of following our staff members has been going on for several months since last November. It never stopped.

Mr. Jekielek: I couldn’t help but notice, and we actually referenced this in some of our reports in English, that in just a few days Jimmy Lai’s sentencing is supposed to happen, and also that of some other pro-democracy activists.

Ms. Guo: April 16 is the sentencing of Jimmy Lai, and also for Martin Lee—a founder of the Hong Kong Democratic Party, a prominent lawyer and member of the Hong Kong Basic Law Drafting Committee—and also a few former legislators in the Hong Kong Democratic Party, along with the disqualified legislator Leung Kwok-hung whose nickname is “Long Hair.”

The sentencing for them will all come out on April 16. This is catching a lot of international attention. We are now hurrying up to repair our equipment and have decided to relaunch our publishing on April 16. So in these few days, we are repairing our equipment and consolidating our security. We hope that at such a moment when big events are happening, we can continue to report to the world the uncensored truth about Hong Kong.

Mr. Jekielek: I want to know a little bit more about you. You founded the Chinese Epoch Times over 20 years ago. You work with the media globally. You have also worked with, specifically, the Hong Kong edition since 2013. Tell me a little bit about that relationship. How does that work? You’re here in the U.S. now.

Ms. Guo: In 2013, I went to Hong Kong to help with The Epoch Times with their business. But once I got there, there was just so much work because events just happened one after another. Very soon after I arrived, the Occupy Central Movement happened and it made headlines around the world. Afterward, a lot of news kept breaking in Hong Kong.

Of course, the one that got the most international attention was the entire extradition bill movement in 2019. Hong Kong is located right next to mainland China, and there’s a lot of China-related news to cover there. So I will stay in Hong Kong for the biggest part of the year to work for the Hong Kong Epoch Times.

Every time I go back to Hong Kong, it leaves me with very strong feelings. I can feel the courage of the Hong Kong people in their fight for freedom, for their freedom of speech, and for the One country, two systems framework. Their fighting spirit has persevered and their will to defend the One country, two systems framework in defense of their rights has persevered.

These protests and movements have continued to this day. Now, we see that Hongkongers are fleeing to different parts of the world. I feel deeply because I’ve been in Hong Kong for all these years. Every time when I return to the U.S. and go back to Hong Kong, the stark contrasts always leave me with a strong impression.

In Hong Kong, we have grown our newspaper and launched a bunch of video programs to report on what’s really going on in Hong Kong. We report it to Hongkongers and to the world. We also have the English language Epoch Times in Hong Kong. The Hong Kong Epoch Times has gained more and more recognition and attention, especially recently in the anti-extradition protests, because we produce a large amount of video content showing the world what is happening in Hong Kong.

Yesterday, there was a report written by the Los Angeles edition of The Epoch Times. I was deeply moved by it. There was a family that was very active in the anti-extradition protests. That man, Mr. Lee, had fled with his wife and three children to Mexico. When we interviewed them, they were all weeping in the film.

They were extremely pained because Mr. Lee did not want to leave Hong Kong. They had a home that they just renovated and they really wanted to stay in Hong Kong, but the CCP is punishing these pro-democracy activists. Several of these pro-democracy leaders will likely be sentenced soon and Mr. Lee and his family are scared that the CCP will continue to punish more people, so they had to flee.

Right now, in Hong Kong, families like this are so common. In Hong Kong’s airports, you see so many families like theirs running away. They’re trying to make a life for themselves somewhere else. So this attack on The Epoch Times in Hong Kong is very reflective of what’s happening across the entire Hong Kong society.

Mr. Jekielek: It’s very difficult for a lot of people, certainly a lot of people in the United States and in Canada, my home country, to conceive of how the CCP actually operates and the depths that it can stoop to, to function. It’s hard for many people to imagine. Let’s talk about the actual beginnings of The Epoch Times in America in Atlanta, Georgia, how that happened, the origins, and how you came to be involved. Tell me about that.

Ms. Guo: Our initial purpose of founding The Epoch Times was [that] we felt, in China, the real news, the truth, is not being reported and that people don’t know the truth. That’s why we wanted to establish an independent newspaper outside of China so that we can bring the truth of China to the entire world and also convey international voices to the Chinese people.

At that time, what just happened was the self-immolation hoax that CCP staged against Falun Gong practitioners. We also obtained a lot of evidence of how the CCP staged the entire event. However, information like that was not reported. Not just among the Chinese media outlets, but even among English language media outlets. The evidence wasn’t reported because the CCP was exerting a lot of pressure on these media. Therefore, our newspaper at that time was able to report the truth about this event to the world.

Later, there were many incidents that happened in China. It was shocking to the world when the SARS virus broke out and the CCP covered it up the entire time. It was the Hong Kong Epoch Times that first broke the story. We reported the outbreak to the world. We are very proud that when faced with a big event like this, we had our website globally with The Epoch Times, such that we could expose this information to the world quickly. This was the main purpose for us in founding The Epoch Times. In these past 20 years, we have always done it like this.

When we first started The Epoch Times, it was very challenging, very difficult. We lacked funding resources all around, so we burned the midnight oil and relied a lot on volunteers to support us at that time. Especially at the Hong Kong Epoch Times, it was like this. When we first started the Hong Kong Epoch Times, we also lacked manpower and resources. But our team, under these challenging circumstances, really worked hard and we had volunteers supporting us as well. That’s how we started.

In May 2019, the Hong Kong Epoch Times started selling newspapers at 7-Elevens across Hong Kong. At that time, there are about 500 7-Eleven branches in Hong Kong that sold our papers. People were very happy that it was now very convenient to purchase The Epoch Times. Unfortunately, the Chinese regime very quickly put pressure on the 7-Elevens, so 7-Eleven unilaterally backed out of the contract and took The Epoch Times off its shelves.

Throughout all these years, we have always faced the Chinese Communist Party’s persecution, whether it’s financial suppression or another type. Despite these difficult circumstances, we have come to today and we are very proud that The Epoch Times has received very genuine support and well wishes from the Hong Kong people. A lot of people have supported us, especially after this recent attack. A lot of folks spoke out in support of us, hoping that we’re able to persevere, and they’re very concerned about the safety of our staff members.

Mr. Jekielek: I want to highlight, for the benefits of our audiences, when The Epoch Times began, it was in this context of this incredible hate propaganda campaign by the Chinese Communist Party against the spiritual discipline of Falun Gong and its practitioners, with the goal, in the words of Jiang Zemin [former Party chief], “to eradicate the group.” On top of all the types of pressure that you were describing, there was this ever present pressure where the people who were doing the reporting were seen as somehow problematic or basically demonized.

Ms. Guo: When we launched The Epoch Times, our first group of reporters in China were pretty much all arrested. The earliest ones were all arrested. A lot of them were graduates from Tsinghua [University] and other prestigious universities in China. They are people with masters or doctorate degrees. They were tortured for a long time in prisons in China. These were some of our first reporters after the founding of The Epoch Times.

We also have a lot of reporters globally whose family members continue to be harassed and threatened in China. Our advertising clients were also threatened. In Hong Kong, I remember that there was once a small advertising client. He received threatening letters in four different languages, foreign languages. Some of these clients in Hong Kong are Koreans or from other countries, so the Chinese regime uses different languages to threaten and harass them, making phone calls.

I remember when I went to Hong Kong for work, as soon as I got there, I received an intimidation letter demanding that I immediately leave Hong Kong. They said they will surveil my every move and follow me, or do other things to intimidate me. So since the founding of The Epoch Times, we’ve continued to face the persecution of the Chinese regime and its attempt to financially suppress us.

Mr. Jekielek: Weren’t you afraid? What’s motivating you here to keep going in this kind of climate?

Ms. Guo: After the recent attack on the Hong Kong printing press, the Hong Kong Epoch Times made a public statement saying that we condemned the violence, so we will definitely not back down. Freedom of speech to people, to society, is essential. Without freedom of speech, humans do not have the very basic right to free choice.

In China, there’s an old saying that goes, 苛政猛於虎, which means, “A tyrannical government is fiercer than a tiger.” Mr. Lee who I mentioned earlier really loves Hong Kong, but he brought his young children—his youngest is only five years old, I think—away from his homeland to Mexico, to enter the United States. There are many families like this in Hong Kong.

Hongkongers are relatively financially prosperous, but they don’t have freedom. They don’t have freedom of speech. Their children and grandchildren have to undergo the CCP’s so-called “patriotic education,”—textbooks written with lies to poison the next generation. When people are facing such a situation where they don’t have freedom and don’t have free will, people choose to flee and leave their homeland.

Humans must have basic dignity and basic freedoms of expression. This is a fundamental safeguard of human society, and that’s our ideal. That’s what motivates us to this day. There’s no turning back for us because this is so essential. If we give this up, then we won’t have basic dignity. This is what drives us to do what we are doing. Although it’s been a difficult, trying, and scary road, we have to persevere. We have no other choice.

Mr. Jekielek: These assaults on freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of thought that the CCP is perpetrating on China and on Hong Kong, they’re actually going quite a bit beyond that, in fact.

Ms. Guo: This is also why we have stood our ground in Hong Kong, why we feel that we have to do our job well to report the truth. The Chinese regime’s biggest lie is saying that China’s economy is doing better. It’s changing and that if we have economic ties with them, China will become better. But in reality, it is not like that.

Hong Kong’s financial sector is highly developed. Hong Kong, for the past 23 years, has been rated number one globally in economic freedom. But in this place with the most economic freedom in the world is still facing restrictions on freedom of speech and media. And there’s self-censorship and lies are being covered up.

The Chinese regime’s Thousand Talents Plan, a large part of it is being pushed forward in Hong Kong. The Chinese regime steals technology through Hong Kong. It takes advantage of Hong Kong’s status as a financial-economic center and it uses companies owned by Hongkongers to steal technology from the companies that work with them through the Thousand Talents Plan. It uses Hong Kong to attract investments and it engages in forced technology transfer.

The international community did not put sanctions on Hong Kong for that, so the Chinese regime took advantage of Hong Kong to steal technology. A lot of this is happening in Hong Kong and that’s why we feel that we have to do our work well in Hong Kong because we can get access to a lot of important information in Hong Kong.

Even though Hong Kong has such a free economy, the Chinese Communist Party is still able to be extremely restrictive on speech and freedoms and control the people. In reality, what the Chinese regime has done in Hong Kong, the psychological control and persecutions, it is doing the same in infiltrating the U.S. and other countries as well.

Its tactics are to lie and to use financial incentives to get major financial groups to partner with it, and these big financial groups and companies control the media and important institutions. Financial incentives make people lose their conscience, to self-censor, and even restrict other people’s free speech.

What is happening now to the U.S., to Canada, and the rest of the world is what the CCP did to Hong Kong starting in 1997. You can be very financially free and relatively prosperous but fundamentally, you have to operate within the rules of the Chinese regime. Your freedoms are restricted, you have to give up the freedom of speech and you have to attack the other group of people so that they can’t speak up.

If people speak up, the other people would not do business with them and will fear doing business with them, and through this will censor their ability to speak. These are things that have all happened in Hong Kong in recent years.

Hong Kong is a perfect model for the Chinese regime. Hong Kong—a really prosperous, free place, a financial center, a center for information, for fashion, jewelry, ad designs, such a leader globally, such a vibrant and energetic city. But step by step, through lies and incitement, the Chinese regime turned Hong Kong into a society where people fear speaking freely.

Now, people don’t dare to speak up. Today, even the Oscars can’t be aired in Hong Kong because movies have to be reviewed by the Chinese regime before they can be played in Hong Kong theaters.

The Chinese regime, step by step, turned Hong Kong into this. They’ve succeeded. They’re doing the same now in Western countries. Hollywood, some big tech companies, and Wall Street, need to do business with China, so they toe the Chinese Communist Party line when it comes to topics that the Chinese Communist Party does not like. This is also happening internationally in other countries. That’s why we feel that it’s so important to have an independent media that reports on the truth.

The scope of the truth is very broad. They’re not just censoring one news item or two news items. It’s the entire system, the entire way the Chinese regime operates. Imperceptibly, things change around you and you realize the world is different. People are fighting in their homes and don’t dare to say what they really feel, because they fear being attacked or being discriminated [against].

These imperceptible changes, you may think it’s hard to conceive of living in a free country. But who’s behind all of this and controlling all of this? Who’s using financial incentives and China’s market as bargaining chips to change the entire world? We know it’s the Chinese Communist Party and it’s done so very successfully in Hong Kong.

Only The Epoch Times does not censor any reporting on China. We don’t censor anything that happens in China. This shows to the entire world the tragedy that is happening now in Hong Kong. It also shows the world how deceitful the CCP is and how it’s always changing. It has revealed the truth about the Chinese regime. This is so valuable. This is not just an issue of China or Hong Kong. It’s also happening in the U.S., happening around the world, right next to us. We are facing the same situation.

That’s why we feel that The Epoch Times with its reporting the truth on what’s going on in Hong Kong and China is extremely valuable to the entire world. Even though it’s been very difficult, even though we have to sacrifice a lot, we stood by this mission for the past 20 years. These are our ideals and our sense of responsibility that we should do what we can. These are our founding principles.

Mr. Jekielek: Quite a number of people have reached out to me, seeing what’s happening in Hong Kong, and saying, “You should move your operation to Taiwan, it’s much safer there.”

Ms. Guo: We also received a lot of these messages. If it really comes to that point one day, I feel it would be a tragedy, not just for Hong Kong people and Chinese people, but a tragedy for the world. So we hope to stop this downward trend while we still can.

Hong Kong is an international center. It has very close relationships with a lot of places and it is a beacon of freedom. I think righteous nations around the world should keep a close eye on Hong Kong’s situation and protect it. We should all pay attention to Hong Kong because losing Hong Kong means losing a major front in combating the Chinese Communist Party in the free world.

A popular nickname for Hong Kong is “base to counter the CCP,” actually. Starting from Sun Yat-sen until now, [Hong Kong’s] been known by a lot of people as a base to counter the CCP. The Chinese regime also sees this. Its strategy this time around is to “take Hong Kong but not its people,” through intimidation and threats. It’s effectively kicking out all of the original Hongkongers, so we describe it as taking Hong Kong but not taking its people.

A lot of people have been forced to leave, but The Epoch Times has stood its ground. We don’t want to see a time when we can no longer survive in Hong Kong and that is a shared responsibility of the entire world.

Mr. Jekielek: This is actually my next question. This is a very dark picture, what the CCP has done in Hong Kong and in all sorts of other places like Xinjiang. Do you see any hope here?

Ms. Guo: I have seen hope. I have seen hope. I’ve seen, internationally, in the U.S., whether it’s the Republican Party or the Democratic Party, they’re largely aligned when it comes to the CCP. Even in Europe, in Southeast Asia, Japan, India, the entire international community, I see that people feel a strong disdain towards the Chinese regime and have firmly condemned the CCP. This sentiment is growing.

I think that as a result of what’s happened in Hong Kong and elsewhere, there were a series of events that happened recently. People around the world are more and more clear-eyed about the CCP, so I believe that more and more countries will awaken to the realities of the CCP. They will stand together and unite to stop the CCP from infiltrating and separating other countries.

Mr. Jekielek: We’ve received a lot of really supportive commentary from lawmakers from across the world, from press freedom organizations, from think tanks, a ton of folks who are unaffiliated, who just value freedom of speech, and are very concerned. I wanted to know if there’s anything you’d like to say to them on camera.

Ms. Guo: First, I’m very grateful for the overwhelming responses we’ve received from the international community after this attack on the Hong Kong printing press, in terms of words of support for us and condemnations of the Chinese Communist Party for what occurred. We are very grateful for these righteous words.

If more people, more countries, will stand up and take action against the Chinese Communist Party’s aggression, that would be great news for Hong Kong. I don’t think words are useless. They’re actually very effective.

As we all see by this incident, when the thugs came to damage the press, they threw paper on the ground saying that we owe money. Last time, they dressed like young pro-democracy protesters to frame them when they set the place on fire. This time, they wanted to hide their motives and make it seem like we had debt.

In all this, we can see their fear because they do not dare to openly do things like this. They’re still trying to cover it up and intimidate us. Their goal is to compel the Hong Kong Epoch Times and its staffers to give up of their own volition—because of fear. The Chinese Communist Party sees this as the most efficient way of achieving its goals. This shows that it’s still extremely fearful of the international community condemning what it’s doing and uniting against it.

So I think if more countries and more people could stand up to the CCP, it would be very helpful to preserving the basic freedoms of speech and press in Hong Kong. If Hong Kong can preserve its freedom of speech and its freedom of the press, that will be very beneficial to Hong Kong and it will also be great news to the Chinese people.

Mr. Jekielek: Guo Jun, as we finish up, tell me, what are your hopes for Hong Kong and for China, for that matter?

Ms. Guo: I do have one hope. We know that during the anti-extradition protests in 2019, in almost every single street in Hong Kong, you would always see one sign and the sign read, “Heaven destroys the CCP.” Hong Kong people put such posters up on bulletin boards, public walls, and inside pedestrian tunnels. They put them up everywhere. This is because the existence of the CCP causes lies, violence, and intimidation to be spread to wherever it grows.

Many Hong Kong people, including the police, and many government officials are actually very kind people. They were pressured by the CCP, but they’re innocent themselves. However, the CCP’s evil system of thought, its corrupt ideologies, and its practices against humanity plague the surroundings with lies and violence wherever the CCP rules.

In order to solve the problems of Hong Kong and of China, the most important line, which I very much agree with, is that “Heaven destroys the CCP.” If people around the world can all awaken to the evil nature of the CCP, if they condemn it and distance themselves from it, when the true nature of the CCP is exposed to the entire world, that is when it’s going happen—that is when “Heaven destroys the CCP.” At that time for Hong Kong, China, Taiwan, and the entire world, it will truly be a blessing for all of them.

That’s my hope, and that’s the hope of Hong Kong people as well.

Mr. Jekielek: Guo Jun, it’s such a pleasure to have you on.

Ms. Guo: Thank you.

These interviews have been edited for clarity and brevity.

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